Brad Listi is a literary star for reasons beyond his writing. Sure, he had a best-selling novel in 2006—Attention. Deficit. Disorder.—and sure, he may have followed that up with an experimental non-fiction collage called Board. But what makes Brad Listi so well-known is his podcast, Otherppl.

The podcast was launched in 2011. Since then, Listi has interviewed over 400 writers and recorded more than 450 episodes.

Listi’s author interviews on the podcast skew toward indie authors, those that may not make the rounds like authors published by the Big 5 might. His interviews expose the fear, hesitation, and humanity in writing. With the help of the authors he talks to, Listi proves there is no such thing as a simple book or an easy path to publication. Listi discusses the failures authors must battle through before they find success.

Otherppl should not be confused as a craft podcast. Listeners may pick up tips and tricks from the authors interviewed, but those tips and tricks are simply a byproduct of human discussions. The podcast is a coming together of people who create things to talk both about the things they create and the world in which they create them. Listi facilitates this discussion, but he almost never drives it in one specific direction. What he does is let writers talk.

He does this especially well in an interview with Brandi Wells, author of This Boring Apocalypse. As is the case with most of Listi’s guests, the conversations jump from literary to personal, and everywhere in between. He and Wells discuss the deep south, getting a Ph.D., dismemberment, and of course, writing.

Wells is no stranger to indie publishers. Her first book, Poisonhorse, was published by Dzanc, and her second book, Please Don’t Be Upset, was published by Tiny Hardcore Press. She seems to have found her stride in This Boring Apocolypse in terms of both the quantity and quality of reviews.

And, of course, Brad Listi loved it. So, there’s that.